IT was an awkward question that got an even more awkward answer.
But on Thursday, embattled former ABC chief Justin Milne stared down the ABC’s best interviewer and explained why he uses the word “chicks” when referring to females.
“Do you call female staff ‘chicks’ or ‘babes’ or anything of that nature?” Leigh Sales asked Mr Milne, moments after he revealed he was stepping down from the top job amid accusations he interfered with the broadcaster’s editorial independence.
“Not babes,” Mr Milne offered, before expanding on his answer.
“I’ve used the word chicks in relation to not female staff, but to friends and people I know,” he said.
“I do that with people that I like. I don’t do it all the time. I do it to try to relax people. I try to be friendly with people but I certainly don’t use that word in a derisive or denigrating way. “And if it causes, if it’s caused offence to people, then I do apologise for that, because that’s not my intention at all. It’s colloquial, kind of matey. That’s the context in which I use it and I guess you do as well. Many people do.”
Mr Milne was peppered with questions in his first interview since the controversial sacking of Managing Director Michelle Guthrie.
Ms Guthrie, who was sacked midway through her high-paying five-year contract, is reportedly considering taking legal advice.
Ms Guthrie’s axing was quickly followed by reports that Mr Milne had ordered Ms Guthrie to fire senior journalist Emma Alberici after pressure to do so from then-Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.
Mr Turnbull and Mr Milne deny the allegations.
The ABC board met without Mr Milne on Thursday morning and concluded his position was untenable.
His departure now leaves the national broadcaster without a Chairman or a Managing Director.
Mr Milne told 730 he was never pressured by anybody or told directly to remove Alberici. He said it was well known that the government did not like her, but refused to go in to details of the “confidential conversation” he had with Ms Guthrie about Alberici’s standing at the ABC.
But Fairfax on Thursday night published the full text message conversation between the pair.
In it, Mr Milne allegedly told Ms Guthrie “get rid of her”.
“After two glasses of red of course there’s an agenda,” he reportedly wrote.
“They fricken hate her. She keeps sticking it to them with a clear bias against them ... we r (sic) tarred with her brush ... get rid of her.”
Mr Milne told Sales that he offered to quit when the board this morning asked him to step aside pending a government inquiry.
“I said, ‘Well, I think actually I should resign’ because there is clearly a lot of pressure on the organisation and, as always, my interests, my aim, has been to look after the interests of the Corporation.
“And it’s clearly not a good thing for everyone to be trying to do their job with this kind of firestorm going on so I wanted to provide a release valve.”
During the at-times tense interview, Mr Milne refused to go into detail about conversations he had with Ms Guthrie, or why the board sacked her.
“When there’s a media storm like this, people would love the have juicy details,” he said. “I’m not going to provide it.”
He indicated that Ms Guthrie’s threat to seek legal action was one of the reasons.
“Ms Guthrie has indicated that she may become litigious,” he said.
Mr Milne denied reports in The Daily Telegraph today that he ordered Ms Guthrie to “shoot” the ABC’s political editor Andrew Probyn.
“You just have to shoot him,” Mr Milne allegedly told Ms Guthrie.
Mr Turnbull has denied asking for any journalists to be fired, saying he complained about specific errors in ABC stories and that accuracy had “deteriorated over recent years”.
According to Fairfax, Mr Turnbull rang the ABC chairman while still in office to complain about a report from chief economics correspondent Emma Alberici on company tax, which he claimed was full of inaccuracies.
Mr Milne reportedly ordered then managing director Michelle Guthrie to fire Alberici and Probyn after Mr Turnbull’s comments.
In a statement about his resignation, Mr Milne denied he had been directed by any member of parliament to “seek the sacking of an ABC staff member”.
Nor had he ever “directed ABC management to sack a staff member”, he insisted.
“I have only ever acted with the interests of the ABC at heart. I have always and continue to respect editorial independence as a bedrock principle of the ABC.”
The best interests of the ABC would be served by him stepping down as chairman, he said.
“I want to be very clear, I have not complained and do not complain about left/right bias,” Mr Turnbull said in New York where he was a guest speaker at a United Nations General Assembly side event.
“My concern has been purely about the accuracy and impartiality if news and current affairs reporting on the ABC.
“I do believe it has deteriorated over recent years. Everybody is entitled to express their views about the ABC and ministers do and prime ministers have done always, and that’s very important.”
He said in regards to accuracy, the ABC “failed” in a number of occasions in recent times.
“In an era of social media and in an era of fake news … the ABC is more important than ever,” he said. “But that is why it’s vital that it has high standards of journalism, that its reporting is accurate and impartial.”
Mr Turnbull would not comment on whether he had “forgiven” the colleagues who tipped him out of his job.
“I am retired from politics, I am not involved in partisan politics any longer,” he said.
“From time to time, I will express my views, as any citizen does on matters of public importance, but I am not involved in matters of partisan politics any longer and I wish all those who are the very best.”
Mr Turnbull also admitted he had some tricky conversations in New York when asked about why he was no longer prime minister. He was at the UN to launch a tobacco-free finance pledge, which he had co-signed with French President Emmanuel Macron when he was prime minister.
“Yes, I have had questions about it, but they are the same questions that Australians have asked,” he said.
“And the answers are difficult to provide.”
Mr Turnbull said the best description he gave them was that the whole episode was a form of “madness.”
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